Jesus is God

I’m on vacation this week, and haven’t written much.  I’m linking to an excellent post entitled Jesus is God Incarnate.  The name of the blog is Fundamental Christianity. Maybe you are, maybe you’re not fundamentalist, but the centrality of Jesus Christ in scripture and his deity are not up for disscusion if you’re a Christian believer.  Check out the post and see if you agree, I’ll be back in one week.

29 thoughts on “Jesus is God

  1. Man, read carefully the bible. Don’t jump to a conclusion. What do think of Jesus Christ, a comedian? a liar?. 1) When he said he WAS SENT, accept it and believe it . someone had sent him. And it’s likely not himself. 2) When he said” The Father and I are one”, does not mean absolute one, but unified as one. Do you know that no man had seen the Father at any given time, and also no man can see the Father and live. 3) Jesus Christ is mighty God, not Almighty God. The Father is the Almighty God. 4) There are many gods. but there is only one God The Father, one God The Son, and Holy Spirit. and so forth.
    So next time read the bible with an open mind. Don’t ever ever jump to any conclusion.

  2. Some people are so open minded their brain fell out. No, I’m just kidding, that doesn’t apply to Dove124 here. There is one God, and he manifests himself in 3 persons. It takes an open mind to accept the trinity in faith, since we can never truly comprehend exactly what that menas. But let me be clear; Jesus is the Son of God, and Jesus is also God. Jesus currently sits on the right hand of God the Father, but he also dwells in our hearts by way of the Holy Spirit. Jesus asended, the Holy Spirit came to be the comforter. The three persons of the Godhead and individually separate, but also one in the same all at the same time. Does that make it more confusing?

  3. Clark Bunch,
    I think that you are the one whose brain fell out. In what particular book,chapter, verse, of the bible, that you can find the word “TRINITY”?
    And I think that you are a very , very confused person. When you wrote this words” The three persons of the Godhead and individually separate, but also one all the same time.”

    question : What really is your stand? Are they individually separate OR the same all at the same time ?

  4. Dove,

    The word TRINITY is a word used to describe the truth about God that is found in the Bible. Just as the word BIBLE is used to define the 39 books of the OT and 27 books of the NT, even though the word BIBLE itself never appears in the Bible.

    So let me present the truths about God that are meant by the word TRINITY.

    1. There is 1 God. I trust I need not defend this truth from scripture.

    2. The Father is God. Hopefully that is pretty clear also.

    3. The Son is God. The link that Clark gave is a pretty good place to start if this needs to be defended from scripture.

    4. The Holy Spirit is God. Of the 5 things I’m listing here, this is perhaps the toughest one to show from Scripture. Two good examples are Acts 5:3-4 where lying to the Holy Spirit and lying to God are synonymous, and Matthew 28:19 where Jesus says to baptize disciples in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It helps to know a little background about baptism in Judaism in the first century. Gentile Converts to Judaism would be baptized in the name of Yahweh, God’s sacred name. By Jesus telling his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit He was equating Father, Son and Holy Spirit with Yahweh (note that He says name, singular, not names plural). Matthew’s readers were Jewish by background (almost all scholars agree on this point) so they would have understood that. This verse is also a good evidence of point #3.

    5. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are seperate persons (not beings). The Father sends the Son. The Son does the will of the Father. The Spirit glorifies the Son. The Father sends the Spirit.

    I think a CAREFUL reading of scripture will show that any one of the above points are taught in the Scripture. If all of the above are true, then the doctrine of the Trinity is also true.

  5. lonelypilgrim,

    1. There is one God.
    question: In your understanding, who this God is?

    2.In #4, where can you find in the bible that its written that the Holy Spirit is God? Do you know that there is a particular instruction from the Apostles for Christians in the bible?
    It is written: That ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.(I Corinthians 4:6)

    3. In your closing argument, you wrote : I think a careful reading of scripture will show that any one of the above points are taught in the scripture.

    YOU THINK? So now it’s very clear to me that you are not so sure and in doubt of what your trying to explain. Deep in your heart, you know that you are lying to yourself. The verses that you gave did not stated nor implied that the Holy Spirit is God. You said it yourself, it is a toughest one to prove.
    And here is another problem for you; NOT ALL ABOVE POINTS ARE TAUGHT IN THE SCRIPTURE. Your #4 is baseless, it only exist in your mind. To prove to you, you use the word “IF” in your statement ” if all the above is true”. You just assuming that your statement is true. And to add to it, you used the word “THEN”, concluding that your assumption is logical.
    When will you ever stop assuming. Be factual.

    4. Just like Clark, you stated that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are SEPARATE PERSONS, and then use the Doctrine of the TRINITY.
    Come on guys, can any one of you can honestly tell me your stand? ARE THEY SEPARATE PERSONS OR THE SAME ALL AT THE SAME TIME?

    This is really the problem of why so many religious group sprang up in our time. They privately interpreted the words in the bible for their own gain. Like what the bible says: They all look to his own WAY, every one for his gain, from his quarter.(Isaiah 56:11)

  6. Dove,

    Brian Evans has a M.Div. (Master of Divinity) from Midwestern Theological Seminary. His teaching on the trinity is in line with the scholars of the Southern Baptist Convention. I am also an ordained Baptist Minister, but not as highly educated as Mr. Evans. Neither of us are “confused,” and I assure know exactly what we are talking about.

    The trinity is a difficult subject to study, but I will reiterate that there is one God, and he manifests himself as God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yes, I am saying that the three distinct personalities of the trinity are in fact separate and one-in-the same all at the same time. I can’t explain it any better than that. As Brian pointed out, the original link offers many examples from scripture to back our position. This is the doctrine of the trinity. You don’t have to agree with it; but I promise that many Christians do. This is what we believe.

    …and Jesus is God.

  7. Clark,

    The website posting this stuff is so anti-Catholic. It smugly dismisses Catholicism with a classic confidence, reminiscent of the attitude of the Catholic Church toward reformers. I spent two and a half years studying the scriptures and history with an Adventist and realized that some people have an agenda rather than a desire for truth.

    I am a Roman Catholic and I believe Jesus is God and died for my sins and gives me salvation through his grace. Clark, am I your brother in the Lord?

  8. Joe is right about the site linked to being anti-Catholic. The name of the site is Fundamental Christianity, as I thought I adaquately warned in the original post. The post I link to has a good chart that provides a great deal of information relating that Jesus is God. Now, if you spend any amount of time reading Fundamental Christianity you’re going to notice several things. Fundamentalists are usually legalists. They stress adherence to rules, and highly emphasize morality. Fundamentalists (and again I stress usually) have a narrow view of who is going to heaven. They are very anti-Catholic, but are also anti Southern Baptist, anit Presbetyrian, anti Methodist, and so forth. Fundamentalists are often your “King James only” types, and say things like “New International Perversion” when referring to the NIV.

    Yes Joe, I believe you and I are brothers in Christ. I’m not endorsing fundalmentalism, though I did grow up in it. There are some good people in fundamental churches, both of my parents included. I do not fully agree with everything the Roman Catholic Church teaches, which is why I am not a Roman Catholic. I did, however, write a whole article on why Catholics are Christian, and it has everything to do with beleiving in Jesus Christ. Everything else about theology and doctrine is details; faith in Christ is essential. I wrote Roman Catholic Christians during the Pope’s visit to the U.S. earlier this year.

  9. Clark Bunch,
    I do understand now, why you, and Evans don’t understand the bible. Do you know why? You two are educated people, you two studied the bible in college.
    You two must understand, that to really understand the bible, the WISDOM must be given by God, and not in college.
    So don’t gave me that craft that you two are masters of whatever it is that your so proud to tell the whole world about it, but at the same time showing your ignorance of the bible to the whole world.
    I did not graduated in any college, but I understand the bible, the salvation of God, cause I asked God to gave me the Wisdom to understand His words. And He gave it to me. And I thanked God about it.
    You see, the thing that the two of you must understand and must see, is to understand this verse very very carefully; But God hath chosen the FOOLISH THINGS of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; the base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are; (I Corinthians 1:27-28)

    I pray that God may open your eyes.

  10. dove124,

    …cause I asked God to gave me the Wisdom to understand His words. And He gave it to me.

    Oh well in that case, what you say must be true. Well, that and the fact you spell wisdom in capitals!

    Seriously dove124, anyone can claim that God is speaking to them and given them wisdom or has told them the truth. We have little way of knowing who among them (if any) is right and which are simply confused people hearing their own thoughts.

  11. “I do understand now why you and Evans don’t understand the Bible. You two are educated people.”
    – Dove124

    I don’t see how being uneducated helps to understand the Bible. Dove quotes from 1 Corinthians, which was written by the Apostle Paul. Was Paul not educated? Paul was educated and trained as a Pharisee. He had studied the entire body of Hebrew law, and could read/write in several languages. He was a Pharisee and a Hebrew, but also a Roman citizen. Paul also wrote these words: “Study to show thyself approved, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.” And also “Brethren, I would not have you to be ignorant.” It is true that the Bible promises to give wisdom to whoever asks for it; but not receiving an education is not the way to learning the meaning of Bible scripture.

    Dove124 does not beleive in the trinity. Many Christians do, both educated and uneducated ones. I mentioned in the comment thread that my parents are fundalmentalists. They both got their GED’s in their early adult life, Dad has a little bit of college. He’s been out of school since the late 60’s. He spent his life working in carpet mills, and sticks to the KJV with religious ferver. But he beleives in the Trinity. The doctrine of the trinity is clearly presented in the scriptures, and making fun of people that went to college doesn’t change that fact. I leave you with this passage in Isaiah 9:

    “For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given;
    and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
    and his name shall be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

    The Isaiah 9 prophecy is about the birth of Jesus (the son of God), but says he will called both Mighty God and Everlasting Father. Maybe someone that didn’t go to college can explain why?

  12. Clark Bunch,
    True, that Paul was educated and trained as Pharisee, But does his training and education makes him understand the scripture before he was converted to being a Christian? Isn’t it true that he persecuted the Church of God because of his ignorance? Now tell me,does his being educated help him in any way. Isn’t it also true that Paul only fully understand the scripture,after being given a wisdom to really understood it? So don’t give that craft that you need education to understand the bible. Your given example, shows that you really don’t understand the bible, and your having a Masters degree is useless.
    What I need from both of you, is to prove to me and to reader in the internet, that the Holy Ghost is a God. True to the saying of Christ ” To them that are without, all are done in parables. That in seeing, they may see, and not perceive, and in hearing, they may hear, and not understand”.
    Show me verses,not your degrees.

  13. P.S.
    Read carefully Isaiah 9:6. READ IT 100 times. And if you still can’t understand it, If God allows it, and with His help, I will make you understand it.

  14. 1) I understand Isaiah 9:6. It says Jesus is God.
    2) I do not have a Master’s degree, and never said that I did.
    3) I am not trying to prove the Holy Ghost is a god. The whole argument has been all along that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God. They are not each gods, they are the three persons of the true and the living God.

    Brian Evans gave you the verses in the comment thread that explain the Holy Spirit is God. You are only talking; you quit listening a long time ago.

  15. Clark Bunch,
    Brian Evans, has not given me a concrete answer. The verses he gave me are just an assumption on his part, that the Holy Ghost is God. It was never been stated in the Old Testament , neither in the New testament that the Holy Ghost is God. Lonelypilgrim, Brian Evan and you,goes outside the parameter of discipline of what is written in the bible. You people, privately interpret the bible in your understanding and in Theology that you receive from that school of Nonesense that you graduated from. And I hope next time, that before you write anything about God , Jesus Christ,Religion, and so forth, be sure that you are 100% sure of what you are discussing about. And be sure also that it will stand cross examination of other readers.

  16. Eshu,
    There are so many ways that you can prove them.
    1. He speaks the words of God.(John 3:34)
    2. In all things shewing himself a pattern of good works; In doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, sound speech, that cannot be condemned.(Titus 2:7-8)
    3. He does not corrupt the word of God: But as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak he in Christ.(2 Corinthians 2:17)
    4. You will know him of his DOCTRINE; whether it be of God, whether he speak of himself. And no unrighteousness is in him.(John 7:17-18)
    5. He does not privately interpret the Bible. (2 Peter 1:20)
    6. He does not go beyond the parameter of discipline of what was written in the bible.(I Corinthians 4:6)

    And the most important of all is ;
    TRY THE SPIRITS whether they are of God: cause many FALSE PROPHETS are gone out into the world. (I John 4:1), Just like Brians and co. and of their kinds.

    If you put this in your mind and in your heart ,You can’t be deceived.
    God Bless

  17. There are Christians who do not believe in the Triune nature of God, that’s fine. The VAST MAJORITY of Christians do. It’s not some kooky thing that Brian and I came up with late one night in a college study hall. I am an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Church, and the doctrine of the Trinity is outlined in the Baptist Faith and Message:

    God

    There is one and only one living and true God. He is an intelligent, spiritual, and personal Being, the Creator, Redeemer, Preserver, and Ruler of the universe. God is infinite in holiness and all other perfections. God is all powerful and all knowing; and His perfect knowledge extends to all things, past, present, and future, including the future decisions of His free creatures. To Him we owe the highest love, reverence, and obedience. The eternal triune God reveals Himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.

    A. God the Father

    God as Father reigns with providential care over His universe, His creatures, and the flow of the stream of human history according to the purposes of His grace. He is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and all wise. God is Father in truth to those who become children of God through faith in Jesus Christ. He is fatherly in His attitude toward all men.

    Genesis 1:1; 2:7; Exodus 3:14; 6:2-3; 15:11ff.; 20:1ff.; Leviticus 22:2; Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:6; 1 Chronicles 29:10; Psalm 19:1-3; Isaiah 43:3,15; 64:8; Jeremiah 10:10; 17:13; Matthew 6:9ff.; 7:11; 23:9; 28:19; Mark 1:9-11; John 4:24; 5:26; 14:6-13; 17:1-8; Acts 1:7; Romans 8:14-15; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 4:6; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17; Hebrews 11:6; 12:9; 1 Peter 1:17; 1 John 5:7.

    B. God the Son

    Christ is the eternal Son of God. In His incarnation as Jesus Christ He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. Jesus perfectly revealed and did the will of God, taking upon Himself human nature with its demands and necessities and identifying Himself completely with mankind yet without sin. He honored the divine law by His personal obedience, and in His substitutionary death on the cross He made provision for the redemption of men from sin. He was raised from the dead with a glorified body and appeared to His disciples as the person who was with them before His crucifixion. He ascended into heaven and is now exalted at the right hand of God where He is the One Mediator, fully God, fully man, in whose Person is effected the reconciliation between God and man. He will return in power and glory to judge the world and to consummate His redemptive mission. He now dwells in all believers as the living and ever present Lord.

    Genesis 18:1ff.; Psalms 2:7ff.; 110:1ff.; Isaiah 7:14; 53; Matthew 1:18-23; 3:17; 8:29; 11:27; 14:33; 16:16,27; 17:5; 27; 28:1-6,19; Mark 1:1; 3:11; Luke 1:35; 4:41; 22:70; 24:46; John 1:1-18,29; 10:30,38; 11:25-27; 12:44-50; 14:7-11; 16:15-16,28; 17:1-5, 21-22; 20:1-20,28; Acts 1:9; 2:22-24; 7:55-56; 9:4-5,20; Romans 1:3-4; 3:23-26; 5:6-21; 8:1-3,34; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2:2; 8:6; 15:1-8,24-28; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21; 8:9; Galatians 4:4-5; Ephesians 1:20; 3:11; 4:7-10; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-22; 2:9; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; 3:16; Titus 2:13-14; Hebrews 1:1-3; 4:14-15; 7:14-28; 9:12-15,24-28; 12:2; 13:8; 1 Peter 2:21-25; 3:22; 1 John 1:7-9; 3:2; 4:14-15; 5:9; 2 John 7-9; Revelation 1:13-16; 5:9-14; 12:10-11; 13:8; 19:16.

    C. God the Holy Spirit

    The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, fully divine. He inspired holy men of old to write the Scriptures. Through illumination He enables men to understand truth. He exalts Christ. He convicts men of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. He calls men to the Saviour, and effects regeneration. At the moment of regeneration He baptizes every believer into the Body of Christ. He cultivates Christian character, comforts believers, and bestows the spiritual gifts by which they serve God through His church. He seals the believer unto the day of final redemption. His presence in the Christian is the guarantee that God will bring the believer into the fullness of the stature of Christ. He enlightens and empowers the believer and the church in worship, evangelism, and service.

    Genesis 1:2; Judges 14:6; Job 26:13; Psalms 51:11; 139:7ff.; Isaiah 61:1-3; Joel 2:28-32; Matthew 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:28-32; 28:19; Mark 1:10,12; Luke 1:35; 4:1,18-19; 11:13; 12:12; 24:49; John 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-14; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4,38; 4:31; 5:3; 6:3; 7:55; 8:17,39; 10:44; 13:2; 15:28; 16:6; 19:1-6; Romans 8:9-11,14-16,26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 3:16; 12:3-11,13; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:19; 1 Timothy 3:16; 4:1; 2 Timothy 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 9:8,14; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 4:13; 5:6-7; Revelation 1:10; 22:17.

  18. Clark Bunch,
    Re: There are Christians who do not believe in the triune nature of God, that’s fine. The VAST MAJORITY of Christians do.

    That’s what worry me. And I am so sorry for those Christians. This is the reason why I debated you of your doctrines and teachings, that I may able to save some few of them from destruction if not all from your erroneous teachings. Through these post, those sheep of Christ that is under your spell may somehow wake up and hear the calling of their true Pastor, Jesus Christ, through the Gospel.

    Have you not read these verses?
    Strive to enter through the narrow gate, FOR MANY, I say to you, will seek to enter and WILL NOT BE ABLE.
    (Luke 13:24)
    Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and THERE ARE MANY who go in by it.
    Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which lead to life, and THERE ARE FEW who find it.(Matthew 7:13-14)

    The latest post that you posted will add to your misery. And this will be use as an evidence against you.
    Let me begin now.
    1.”There is one and only one living and true God”
    question: How about Christ Jesus, is he dead? and NOT a TRUE GOD?
    2. “God is ALL knowing: including the future decision of his free creatures”
    Question: How sure are you? gave me a verse that state that God is ALL knowing and knows the decisions of his free creatures?
    3. “God reveals himself to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”
    By golly, the god that you worship has a personality problem.He is a very very confused god. He does not know if he is the father, the son, or the holy spirit. A clown god.It’s no wonder that you are his worshiper. Like god, like worshiper.
    question: Where in the world did you got this stupid idea. (I don’t think you got it from the bible. I think you got it from a preacher from an asylum.)
    4. “Christ is the eternal Son of God.”
    Question: I thought that you stated that God is only one living and true God”?
    5.” He is one mediator fully God, “FULLY MAN” “.
    question: Find me a verse that will support your theory that he is “FULLY MAN”.
    Well, that’s it for now. And before I forget, pleassssse !! Clark, Clark,.. buddy…SHEW ME THE VERSE THAT STATE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT OR GHOST IS A GOD. (For the sake of the readers)

    Clark Bunch, I think you should quit in your congregation to which you belong while you still can and able. You should consider the criteria I posted. Put them in your heart cause not in a single one of them does your doctrine have passed. You have corrupted the word. your doctrine is not sound, and can’t stand cross examination.You privately interpret the bible according to the theology that you have studied and not according to the wisdom that is in the bible. Your doctrine have so many loopholes in them.
    So Clark , for the love of God: Q U I T

  19. 1) How come every person that believes in the trinity is confused? Millions of Southern Baptist confess what is written in the Baptist Faith and Message, billions of Christians have recited the Apostles’ Creed over the years. What makes you the source of authority on who is and is not confused?

    2) Each one of the statements (2 comments above) includes about 30 verses from the Bible that are the foundation for that belief. Before asking for the verses – notably about the Holy Spirit – did you look those up?

    3) Jesus was fully man and fully God. Isaiah 7:14 says “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” Matthew quotes this verse, and goes on to explain that Immanuel means “God with us.”

    Phillipians 2 does the best job of any passage in the Bible explaining that Jesus is God: “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” -Phil 2:5-8

    I didn’t learn this in college, it’s not written by theologians, these are the words of divinely inspired scripture. THE BIBLE says that Jesus is God. I’m sure you will find a way to disagree, but this the Word of God for the people of God.

  20. Clark Bunch,

    I did not question that Jesus Christ is a God, it was written in the bible . What I’m questioning is WHERE IN THE BIBLE IT IS WRITTEN AND WHAT VERSE THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT OR GHOST IS A GOD. That’s all I want to find out from you. So don’t gave me alibi that it was written in your Baptist faith and message, for you and I know that book of yours are full none sense and written by a person not sent by God. What I am interested about are those that are written in the bible. The verses that you posted have not specifically stated that the Holy Spirit is a god.

    So Clark….You gave up? Cause you know deeply in your heart, that you CAN’T FIND a single verse in the bible that stated that the Holy Spirit or Ghost is a god. ACCEPT IT. DON’T LIE TO YOUR SELF. BE TRUTHFUL.

  21. 1) Jesus is not a god, and the Bible doesn’t say he is a god. Jesus is God. Read John 1:1, then John 1:14.

    2) The Holy Spirit is not a god, and I’ve said this more than once already. The Spirit is one of the manifestations of the true and the living God.

    Brian Evans suggested reading Acts 5:3-4 back in August. Here it is: “But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” Peter equates lying to the Holy Spirit to lying to God. He wouldn’t have said this if he didn’t believe that the Holy Spirit was God.

    Consider at the baptism of Jesus when “the Spirit descended on him like a dove.” Or when Jesus says to the Samaritan woman at the well “But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” -John 4:23-24

    3) Genesis chapter 1 verse 26 reads “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” God is plural. Is there more than one God? No, and yet the single God exists in plurality. You may not understand it and don’t have to like it, but God said it.

    “Let us make man in our image…” Is God confused? Will you tell God not to lie to himself?

  22. THIS VERSE SAYS THAT THE HOLY GHOST IS GOD:

    “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

    1 JOHN 5:7, KING JAMES VERSION. There are three, and those three are one.

  23. Clark Bunch,

    Oh, in desperation, you posted me that verse, its like; That they may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also MAY BE ONE IN US:(John 17:21)and another is; that they may be one, even as we are one: I IN THEM, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one.(John 17:22-23)

    I’m so disappointed at you. That is not the answer that I want to hear from you. Where does it state that the Holy Ghost or spirit is a god.
    You know if I were you, I will heed the advice of Agur. He said: Do not add to His words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

    Farewell my friend, and better study more.And stop fooling yourself.

  24. In light of your discussion I should point out that there are thousands of Christian sects in the world today, and all of them can point to the bible and tell you why they’re right. If it actually bothered God what people believed He would have made things clear.

    Most ironic bible verse ever? 1 Corinthians 14:33.

    Although from my point of view you might as well be arguing over whether Frodo will ever recover from the effects of the ring.

  25. 1) God made plenty of things clear, it takes two to communicate. The miscommunication (either by mistake or intent) is on man’s part.

    2) Jesus pointed this out to the Pharisees, when saying that they strain at a gnat. Their focus was in the wrong place; they memorized the letter of the law, but missed the spirit of the law.

    3) All the many sects of Christians at least understood that Christ is the most important thing. I look forward to setting down with Dove124, if that’s his real name, and both of us being straightened out someday.

  26. Clark,

    All the many sects of Christians at least understood that Christ is the most important thing.

    Except the ones who don’t. But then we call them Jews, or Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs… in fact the majority of religious people in the world don’t think that Christ is the most important thing. But, by definition then, they’re not Christians.

    All of which shows that (1) is counter to the evidence.

  27. Now Eshu and I have turned this comment thread into our ongoing discussion of religion vs. atheism. So be it.

    Christians understand Christ to be the most important thing. I think you stumbled onto that near the end of your last comment. There are many different sects of CHRISTianity, but one Christ, and therefore one body of believers.

    Colossians 1 describes Jesus as the image of the invisable God. When God revealed himself to humanity, he did so through Jesus Christ. That’s what Christians understand. All other religions seek to understand God, the nature of the universe, divine harmony, etc. but only through Jesus Christ can we come into peace and fellowship with Almighty God. “In him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell.” The incarnation was God’s appearence on earth; that’s how he made it clear.

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